Autor Tópico: Onyx Path Anuncia Vampire: The Masquerade 4th editon!!! [wtf???]  (Lida 7264 vezes)

0 Membros e 1 Visitante estão vendo este tópico.

Re:Onyx Path Anuncia Vampire: The Masquerade 4th editon!!! [wtf???]
« Resposta #15 Online: Agosto 05, 2015, 10:04:50 pm »
Antes de tudo, o o anúncio oficial e algumas clarificações da Onyx Path. O que considero mais importante:

Dos autores e pessoas convidadas para conhecer Vampiro 4e antes dele ser anunciado:These folks are a selection of smart and talented folks in both the tabletop RPG industry and outside of it who are dedicated to Vampire: the Masquerade in its many forms. We discussed all aspects of VtM with them in order to give us what Alan Moore calls a “high altitude pass” over the entirety of Vampire and to give us a feel for aspects that we might not be as aware of because it never touched us in the ways it did these folks...that very process did exactly what we needed and gave Eddy the ability to pull together these disparate ideas of just what VtM means to people, and from there to take the first pass at creating a “bible” for writing of V4.

Do momento do anúncio: The announcement is also the first time we can engage at this stage of a project with any of our Open Development Process, which began during the creation of V20 in it’s most basic form, and like other Open Dev Process projects, we will be interested in hearing what you have to say, even if we choose to go a different way.

Do que será Vampiro 4e:

1. V4 is the next edition of Vampire: the Masquerade, which means that it is the successor to VtM Revised Edition, not V20. V20 was a compilation, not a new edition.

2. The format of V4 has yet to be determined, but the one thing we do not want it to be is a single huge volume like V20. We want this edition to please all our current community, of course, but it is vital that V4 is accessible to new players.

3. That being said, V4 is the next edition of Vampire: the Masquerade, not a different vampire game. We love VtM, and are not totally reimagining it. We look at the modern era of Doctor Who, or Mad Max: Fury Road as examples of how to create a new version that is right for its time but still evokes all the qualities that the originals did and can still be seen as a continuation of the whole series.

4.We will be setting the setting in the year it releases (our plan is for 2016) and the overall setting will be one that traces back to where things left off with Gehenna. It will not be post-apocalyptic.

5. Mechanics, they need changes. We’re looking at some new rules mechanics that simplify the previous versions while boosting the connection to the themes of the game.


Citar
Lembrando que o Saulot é um dos piores NPCs do oWoD, porque cada autor que lidou com ele puxava o personagem pra uma direção diferente. E eles nunca tiveram um grande plano para o mundo das trevas como um todo, onde personagens assim tivessem um começo, meio e fim planejados.

Em parte, esse é um dos motivos de Saulot ser um NPC interessante. Ele é um dos poucos antediluvianos que tem presença no jogo e que tem alguma personalidade fora dos esteriótipos do Clã que fundou (mesmo que isso não tenha sido a intenção original dos autores, acabou emergindo assim).

Citar
Pior que ele só o Haight.

Pior que o Haight, só o Lameth ou Dirk McCann, um NPC da Primeira Edição. Ele criou uma Poção da Golconda e possuía Mágicka Verdadeira, sendo um Vampiro da Quarta Geração (que manipulou, entre outros, Saulot). Haight ainda foi mantido na continuidade do cWoD, Lameth teve que ser retirado dela.  :b
« Última modificação: Agosto 05, 2015, 10:09:16 pm por Khalid al-Walid »

Re:Onyx Path Anuncia Vampire: The Masquerade 4th editon!!! [wtf???]
« Resposta #16 Online: Agosto 08, 2015, 12:53:17 am »
Eu ia citar o lobo (lobo comum) vampiro ancião de 6 geração que vive a anos andando por aí e ajudando outros vampiros do Jerusalem by Night, mas vamos deixar isso para quando a gente fizer uma lista dos piores NPCs do WoD.
Lido esse ano:
Feng Shui, Wu Xing, Blowing Up Hong Kong, MHRPG Civil War: X-Men, Shadows of Esteren, Dungeon World, 13th Age (Draft), Night's Black Agents, Pendragon 5.1, Legends of Anglerre, Hollowpoint, Planescape (caixa básica), Monsterhearts, Werewolf: DA, Player's Handbook Races: Tieflings, Apocalypse (WtA), Dragon Magazine Annual Volume 1
Atualmente lendo:
Dresden Files (FATE), Fantasy Craft, Mage 2e, In Nomine
Na fila:
REIGN, MHRPG: Annihilation, GoT RPG

Re:Onyx Path Anuncia Vampire: The Masquerade 4th editon!!! [wtf???]
« Resposta #17 Online: Agosto 09, 2015, 04:41:29 pm »
Citar
mas vamos deixar isso para quando a gente fizer uma lista dos piores NPCs do WoD.

Se você topar, eu crio o tópico. E como esse tópico é sobre a nova edição, um excelente resumo do que eu gostaria que fosse alterado em Vampiro 4e:

Citar
Overhaul Traits
1) Reduce the dominance of Dexterity so that it no longer overpowers the other two Physical Attributes
2) Realistically define the difference between Charisma and Manipulation
3) Give Appearance a useful function or remove it. What your character looks like should really be a player choice, not a stat. Maybe a merit at most.
4) Make Wits more useful in the game. Currently it does very little aside from Initiative.
5) Generation shouldn't be a Background. One trait (terribly cheap, too) that is an almost-permanent measure of power? No, thanks. Go with a scaling system like Blood Potency, Rank, Arete, Dharma, Balance, or whatever. Something designed to be increased during play.

Overhaul Clans
1) Fix the racism
1b) Giovanni need to be less "Italian mafia with incest and necrophilia"
1c) Assamites need a new name and less of a "Muslim Terrorist" vibe
1d) Setites should not be pseudo-Egyptian cartoons ripped from the pages of Kull the Conquerer. And rename them Apophans if you want the snake theme, dammit.
1e) Ravnos need to loose the "gypsy thief" thing right now.
2) Stop relying on "signature Disciplines" to define a Clan. If you can't imagine Tzimisce without Vicissitude, then the Tzimisce are a badly written Clan.

Overhaul Disciplines
1) Solve the problem with speedbump powers like Dominate 1-2 and Obfuscate 1-2
2) Re-write the powers that don't fit the theme of their Disciplines, like Quietus 1, Dementation 3, Obfuscate 3, Bone Path 4 & 5, etc.
3) Totally re-write Vicissitude and Chimerstry to fit with the linear, well-defined nature of every other Discipline instead of allowing them as freeform powers.
4) Revise the "unique" Disciplines to be on-par with the "generic" Disciplines. Currently they are almost always stronger on a 1:1 basis.
5) Make it so that Disciplines can be effectively resisted by the target. Not basing difficulty on the victim's trait, but actual, meaningful ways to defend against Discipline powers.
6) Balance Celerity, Fortitude and Potence. Celerity should not be the strongest Discipline in the game.

Take Out The Trash
1) Dump the stupid bloodlines (vampire-elves, vampire-gargoyles, vampire-dryads)
2) Dump the stupid Disciplines (Melpominee, Visceratika, Valeren/Obeah, Spiritus, Sanguinis..) which seem to be the only reason that many of the Bloodlines exist
3) Allow Disciplines to be created by a wider range of vampires. That removes the need for one-trick-pony Bloodlines and the inflation of Thaumaturgy.
4) Consolidate blood magic. Everything needs to use one system. Change the names, change the common paths, but the Giovanni, Tremere, Assamites, Setites and Tzimisce should all be using the same Discipline and the same rules. Your game is about vampires, not mages. One "magic" system is enough.
5) Get rid of the Blood Magic Bloat caused by your decision to rely entirely on "signature disciplines" and Thaumaturgy paths to add new powers to books. Make use of Meta-Disciplines, Alternate Techniques and, if necessary, new generic Disciplines.

Overhaul Morality
1) There's nothing "human" about Humanity. Present the Path of the Golden Rule as one option for Morality, as they did in DA:V, with Roads.
2) If you must have Humanity, make it about being and acting human instead of following the rules you learned in Sunday School.

Overhaul Combat
1) Multiple actions either need to die forever, or actually work in a way that doesn't cause the system to shriek and panic.
2) Fix Clinches so that any power (Obtenebration 3...) granting extra Clinch attacks doesn't automatically end fights in one-sided victory.
3) Cut down complexity.
3a) Damage: Bashing (halved after soak..) vs Lethal (firearms at the head?) vs Aggravated (magic) vs Bane Aggravated (fire/sun/faith) is just one of the areas that is way too fiddly.
4) Define how actions work!!!! Give us types! explain clearly in powers! explain clearly anywhere!!!!! There should not be questions of "does activating Protean 2 count as an action?" "Can I use Celerity to activate multiple Disciplines?" "Can I Dominate three people in a round by splitting my action?' NO! Define what actions are, how long they take and give each power or maneuver a specific type of action!

Final Thoughts!

1) STOP MIXING UP YOUR RULES AND YOUR STORY! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING! You can't use fluff as rules; the second you type the words "System:" you need to stop writing fluff!! It is incredibly frustrating to try to tease rules out of the over-dramatic descriptions and NPC-only plot-driven backstory that permeates all current editions of WW/OP products. Stop that! Rules are rules! Story is story!

2) DEFINE YOUR VOCABULARY! If "Thinblooded" means something different from "Caitiff" then CLEARLY STATE that. If "Clan" and "Bloodline" have actual meanings, DEFINE THEM! Define what a "health level" of damage is, compared to a "die of damage". Make it very clear when something can be soaked or not. Use keywords if you have to, but quit assuming that your idea is easily translated by thousands of players! That's why games like D&D and Exalted and Magic: the Gathering have keyword systems! You even wrote one of those games! Use keywords! Use vocabulary terms! Have a lexicon that clearly and unambiguously defines things!!! It's all very well and good to have a mysterious setting but for anything that is rules-based, you need to have clear meanings!

3) Stop writing for meta-plot. Write for gamers. You're not writing a novel. Don't kill off the Ravnos to "add drama" to your metaplot. Write that in a chronicle book or something, which is entirely optional. Divorce your metaplot from the actual rules of the game.

4) Write a balanced game. Don't present some options as hands-down better just because they're "rare" or because they help advance your plot (Vicissitude). Yes, the setting is unfair. Yes, roleplaying is important. But this is a game. Sarah's XP should be worth just as much as Tim's XP, no matter what they're spending it on.

5) Get away from the idea that anything but the Camarilla Clans and the Generic Disciplines is "cheating". Stop putting in "NPC ONLY!" warnings all over your new material. When Pathfinder introduced a whole book of new hybrid classes, they didn't write entire pages of text about how this new book (that people paid a lot of money for) was only to be used to "add flavor" to the world. No, they expected people to play the new classes. Learn from that. If you write a Discipline, expect it to be used. If you present a Bloodline or a Clan, don't tell people they're bad roleplayers for wanting to play it.
« Última modificação: Agosto 09, 2015, 04:50:38 pm por Khalid al-Walid »

Offline kinn

  • Abranubis
  • supreme sorcerer-psion multiclass
    • Ver perfil
    • Contos da Crisálida
Re:Onyx Path Anuncia Vampire: The Masquerade 4th editon!!! [wtf???]
« Resposta #18 Online: Agosto 09, 2015, 07:13:48 pm »
"STOP MIXING UP YOUR RULES AND YOUR STORY! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!"

Isso me irritava muito, especialmente em mago - rendia muitas discussões.

<Get away from the idea that anything but the Camarilla Clans and the Generic Disciplines is "cheating".>
&
<If you write a Discipline, expect it to be used. If you present a Bloodline or a Clan, don't tell people they're bad roleplayers for wanting to play it.>

Esses dois pontos me fizeram migrar para o D&D, já que estava cansado do Gurps e tentei procurar no storyteller um sistema adequado para minhas mesas - mas acabou sendo um fracasso retumbante por conta desses motivos expostos (e muitos outros)
Pesquisas provam:
(click to show/hide)

Re:Onyx Path Anuncia Vampire: The Masquerade 4th editon!!! [wtf???]
« Resposta #19 Online: Agosto 09, 2015, 09:25:36 pm »
Concordo com vários pontos da lista, principalmente a questão de quão roubada era Rapidez, mas...


Totally re-write Vicissitude and Chimerstry to fit with the linear, well-defined nature of every other Discipline instead of allowing them as freeform powers.


Essa liberdade era o que eu mais curtia em Vicissitude. Como se limitaria ela? Por m³/kg de ossos?

Re:Onyx Path Anuncia Vampire: The Masquerade 4th editon!!! [wtf???]
« Resposta #20 Online: Agosto 09, 2015, 11:01:44 pm »
Citar
Essa liberdade era o que eu mais curtia em Vicissitude. Como se limitaria ela? Por m³/kg de ossos?

A melhor ideia veio do  Telgar, o autor da lista que repassei, que tem uma boa reescrita da disciplina aqui. Note que ela ainda é versátil, mas mais contida e com efeitos mecânicos mais claros. Ele mesmo sugere que os efeitos mais extremos e permanentes da disciplina (Baforejar Fogo, Forma Zulo) sejam consequências de rituais de koldun ou simplesmente o que a disciplina sempre foi, plot device.

Na verdade, o Telgar é o mais próximo que Vampiro tem de um fã que quer salvar o sistema (Ikea Effect), como ocorre muito em D&D (devido a rica comunidade de otimizadores). A revisão dele de diversas disciplinas é no mínimo digna de atenção, vide aqui.